The geometry is tighter and they're much more responsive - with the higher bb height there's less chance of pedal strike in corners. They're generally not as comfortable as a road frame over long distances/rides but I've done 100-ish mile days on mine without any real trouble.

Are you looking for a new frame?

If you can, try out someones bike at Fixed Beer - I'm sure someone will let you have a blast round the block.

[quote]

Rory:

yeah , thinking of a new bike for the summer, the bikes ive had have been coversions, one was a peugeot and now ive got a raliegh but would like to have a proper track frame. if i was to get a frame the top tube must be straight because i really cant stand frames which have and angled top tube which is getting higher towards the headset, its kind of weird but i really dont like the look of it for some strange reason. you got any sugestions on track frame. will be needing something smaller, say 50cm i think

Would have thought that at 50cm your gonna struggle to get a flat top tubed frame purely due to the simple geometric shape of it.
Circa 28 inches for wheel and tyre + couple inches for fork crown/headset + say 4 inches for a short headtube = 34" or 863mm
300mm bb elevation + 50cm seattube = 800mm

Ie the top of your seat tube will be below your headtube so there will be no choice but to slope the toptube.

[quote]

Johnny Crash:

17? You should be out drinking, taking drugs and trying to sleep with as many girls as you can so that's no excuse.

You should go along - there's usually a couple of hours riding before the pub anyway and you'll get to talk to a lot of nice, knowledgeable people about bikes.

Haha, +1!
I'd been going to pubs and clubs for at least a year, dabbled in a few substances and been lifted for drinking by the time i was 17.
I was so busy getting out my face i kinda forgot about the girls until a few years later.

Naw, there are plenty of 50cm track frames about with flat top tubes, just look at NJS supermarket. Think you'd start seeing problems below 48cm though, and at those sorts of sizes with a proper tight clearance track fork toe-overlap will be hellish. Mine is a 52cm close clearance track frame and overlap is pretty bad on that... take another 2cm off the t/t length and I can't imagine turning tightly in any scenario.
But anyway, track frames feel pretty noticaly different like Johnny says. In a nice way I think... but not as stable or as comfortable, "twitchy" would be one way to describe the handling relative to a road frame.

It depends on the headtube and seatube angles really. If it is a pure track frame it will likely have a steeper headtube angle and that is where you get the overlap issues. Cervelo are known for their toe overlap in the smaller sizes because they try and keep a steeper than usual 73 degree headtube angle.

There are many different ways to get a bike to fit though. Be more concerned with how your bike fits rather than how it looks.

Islipaway was tellig me the otherday that bob jackson don't build frames with toe overlap

i would give you a shot of mine but i think it would be a bit big...

That's a good buy and a lovely bike! If I didn't already have too many bikes, I'd be tempted.

[quote]

Johnny Crash:

That's a good buy and a lovely bike! If I didn't already have too many bikes, I'd be tempted.

yup, it'll be getting built up soon if I don't sell it. I've got a load of bits that would just about complete it.

Meeting the rules for use on the Manchester / Newport velodromes?